Jonny says: (1:35:28 PM)
Another miss-conception that prevails in today’s ages is the ideas of right and wrong
Jonny says: (1:35:40 PM)
There is no such thing as right in wrong, that’s a creation of man
Jonny says: (1:36:25 PM)
There is only negative and positive and I feel that there’s a big difference in the meanings of positive & negative compared to the meaning of right and wrong
Jordan says: (1:36:41 PM)
How so?
Jonny says: (1:36:44 PM)
Positives and negatives are a creation of nature
Jonny says: (1:38:00 PM)
Like you can act in a negatives way that the status-cue considers a good thing. For example war. But the whole concept of war is the destruction of people/places and policies which in my view is completely negatives
Jonny says: (1:40:14 PM)
I unknot I myself I'm trying to do my best to learn this concept of no right and wrong but I know It's true because I can see positive and negatives act in nature I can't see right and wrong act in nature
Jordan says: (1:40:50 PM)
So give me an example of positive/negative in nature
Jonny says: (1:41:02 PM)
There is no right and wrong of nature, like a hurricane isn’t wrong its just weather acting negative
Jordan says: (1:41:20 PM)
Right
Jonny says: (1:41:47 PM)
Or a tree growing to give off oxygen isn’t right it's acting positive to grow and contribute to the greater good of life
Jordan says: (1:41:57 PM)
Right
Jordan says: (1:42:09 PM)
But the difference is that we have a conscious
Jonny says: (1:43:03 PM)
I know and so nature doesn’t predetermine our output, we do. WE decide whether to be a positive action of life or a negative.
Jordan says: (1:43:52 PM)
What do you mean by output?
Jonny says: (1:46:43 PM)
It still doesn’t mean we live in a right or wrong world because were conscious, it means that we have the ability to affect life for others and ourselves. I mean our contributions to life are not predetermined by nature, nature isn’t our conscious, and we control our contribution to life. I.E. our conspicuous allows us to have either a positive or negatives impact on life
Jordan says: (1:48:53 PM)
But the intent behind our choices is what makes it wrong or right. A hurricane doesn't choose to "attack" it just is. We choose to steal or hurt or hug
Jonny says: (1:57:23 PM)
That’s true yo and that’s why I struggle with this concept but I can't ignore what I grow to try to understand. I just can say what about those who have to act in a wrong way but its overall affect are positive. For instance is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed our starving family?
Jordan says: (2:21:06 PM)
Yah there's no doubt that some negative choices result in good consequences
Jordan says: (2:21:09 PM)
Yes
Jonny says: (2:22:37 PM)
And there’s good choices that have negatives consequences as well, that’s what I mean it’s confusing to differ what’s right and wrong. Too many are still caught up differing right from wrong that they can't focus on anything else
Jordan says: (2:22:48 PM)
Right
Jonny says: (2:23:08 PM)
So they should destroy the notion of right and wrong to make it easier for people to understand, lol
Jordan says: (2:23:43 PM)
But would that endorse the idea of doing whatever we want? What would that result in?
Jonny says: (2:27:21 PM)
It would but if you can teach a person the importance of living positively and the consequences to society as a whole from living negatively the choice is there’s free to make. I know what I'm saying can be turned around to say well for centuries organized religion has tried to teach people how to live RIGHT and to no avail everything is fucked up, so what’s the difference
Jonny says: (2:29:46 PM)
As a whole organized religion teaches people to "follow the leader" and that is detrimental to our human nature, but if the person has the proper understanding of positive and negatives then they are free to impact their lives and other following a positive road if they choose
Jordan says: (2:31:04 PM)
I think it depends on what stage the religion is at
Jordan says: (2:32:04 PM)
For example, the protestant reformation was all about giving the people the ability to interpret the bible on their own, so that the catholic priests couldn't tell them. Of course over the centuries, it has degraded once again
Jordan says: (2:32:22 PM)
Just look at the American breadbasket, and how people follow whatever their pastor says
Jonny says: (2:33:00 PM)
But religion isn’t natural to belief is natural but to indoctrinate a person into something he doesn’t want or cant fully understand can affect the individual and the organization as a whole
Jordan says: (2:35:46 PM)
True, religion is a manmade product. It’s designed to try and worship/communicate with God. But you're right; people do take advantage of it and manipulate it. I still think it's important for us to try and understand right and wrong, and to teach to live right, because we can't just give up
Jordan says: (2:36:20 PM)
My problem with religions is that they don't often teach people to ask questions
Jordan says: (2:36:33 PM)
And then insert the sheep
Jonny says: (2:37:17 PM)
Religion’s down fall is saying that they are the "RIGHT road to salvation" when in fact there are many roads that lead to salvation and that acting positive is at the root of these roads. This is why I’m beginning to question the validity of right and wrong
Jonny says: (2:38:30 PM)
They don’t teach you to ask questions because they believe that they know all and that they will tell you what you need to know to live right
Jordan says: (2:38:47 PM)
Indeed
Jordan says: (2:40:40 PM)
Now I happen to believe in Christ as the only way. But that doesn't mean I can't recognize the good in other religions. If I could be half as devout as a Muslim who gets down on his knees and prays multiple times a day, I’m sure I’d be a stronger person. The problem is there are so many people who live and have not lived who have not heard of Christ, so how is that fair? I don't know. I can only
Jordan says: (2:40:58 PM)
Hope that God judges us on what we know
Jonny says: (2:47:19 PM)
That’s if god even does judge. I don't want to say that religion has the wrong concept when they think of god because that’s not entirely true. I feel that all religions offer a road to salvation for an individual that has a certain intellect and cognize. What I mean is that for every person there is a proper religion can identify with an individuals understanding of all things.
Jonny says: (2:49:28 PM)
There really is no right or wrong way of living; there can be a right and wrong way when you introduce a society as complex as the current human one.
Jordan says: (2:50:23 PM)
So what about a person who chooses to steal from the needy? Is this person not living wrong?
Jonny says: (2:50:38 PM)
And I guess that’s the standpoint we are in today’s age; well that’s what is conflicting in my head anyways. I see the need for a right and wrong way of living but I also see how that system can be flawed and manipulated for ones gain
Jordan says: (2:50:51 PM)
Yes
Jordan says: (2:51:11 PM)
Who decides who is needy? Do we know the stealer's needs?
Jordan says: (2:51:33 PM)
Different people translate right and wrong differently
Jordan says: (2:51:42 PM)
That’s why we have talk radio
Jonny says: (2:52:06 PM)
Exactly to go back to my example, a man stealing bread to feed his family compared to a man who sells guns to feed his family, its a weird time
Jonny says: (2:52:27 PM)
lol to a man who sells guns not gus
Jordan says: (2:52:39 PM)
I was wondering what Gus what...
Jordan says: (2:52:42 PM)
Was...
Jonny says: (2:52:46 PM)
Loll
Jordan says: (2:52:48 PM)
haha
Jordan says: (2:53:12 PM)
i've got a picture of your roommate being sold to feed someone's family
Jonny says: (2:53:19 PM)
lol
Jordan says: (2:53:26 PM)
But yes
Jordan says: (2:53:48 PM)
Is it better if the gun seller sells candy?
Jonny says: (2:53:56 PM)
lol
Jordan says: (2:54:08 PM)
The gun might kill someone, or it might prevent a crime
Jordan says: (2:54:27 PM)
The candy might bring satisfaction, or high cholesterol
Jonny says: (2:54:34 PM)
Our how about a man stealing bread to feed his family or America going into Iraq to secure oil for the next decade
Jordan says: (2:54:48 PM)
Yes
Jordan says: (2:55:15 PM)
I guess the question becomes does America need to steal that bread or could it instead afford to buy it
Jonny says: (2:55:22 PM)
Same type of action that is both right and wrong but can be defined as positive and negative
Jordan says: (2:55:31 PM)
I see
Jordan says: (2:56:07 PM)
Is the thief so desperate that he might try to get a real job? Or is getting a real job the harder road
Jonny says: (2:57:42 PM)
Lol this thief is a man who lives in a slum in an improvised country and that country got that way from a foreign policy built of the economic control of the globe lol
Jordan says: (2:57:59 PM)
haha
Jonny says: (2:58:12 PM)
lol no work to be had for him
Jordan says: (2:58:32 PM)
So does he live his life blaming everyone else, or does he take action to try and fix his life
Jordan says: (2:59:01 PM)
Is there truly no work, or does he turn a blind eye to it because that choice is not easy
Jonny says: (2:59:04 PM)
Oh he does, by inciting the slums with thoughtful conversation
Jonny says: (3:00:09 PM)
Oh there’s work to be done but know one is willing to pay these people who mean nothing to the people with money. They come from the wrong side of the country
Jordan says: (3:01:10 PM)
You make it sound so cheery
Jonny says: (3:02:27 PM)
llol just the reality of the situation
Jonny says: (3:03:02 PM)
Lol in order to hammer home the fact that this man is a good honest man that is just trying to feed his family
Jonny says: (3:03:11 PM)
lol you could argue it all day long
Jonny says: (3:03:21 PM)
That he could go hunt for bugs in the woods
Jonny says: (3:03:29 PM)
Or eat garbage
Jordan says: (3:03:41 PM)
Oh I know. But I guess that's what attracts me to the idea of God. It gets depressing thinking about how fucked up the world is. I put my hope in the fact that it's not in our hands. I can't claim to know how it works, or why, but its the only hope I have
Jonny says: (3:03:46 PM)
But that’s just nit picking and not focusing on the overall message
Jordan says: (3:03:57 PM)
I know
Jordan says: (3:04:33 PM)
I think too many of us use that as our crutch, to say "oh its in God's hands, let Him deal with It." but I think he's really calling us to help. I just wish I could hear it
Jonny says: (3:05:20 PM)
Yeah put if the worlds not in your hands, then who's hands is it in? God doesn't ultimately control everything because its not in his nature to control its in his nature to be everything and anything that exists and doesn’t exist
Jordan says: (3:05:54 PM)
That’s why he gave us free will
Jordan says: (3:06:42 PM)
I guess to me it means some people have hard lives, but God loves them regardless of their choices.
Jonny says: (3:07:53 PM)
Lol god is the aspect of love, lol I can't even begin to try to tell you my conceptions of god
Jordan says: (3:08:03 PM)
Try it
Jonny says: (3:08:08 PM)
All I can say is ALL IN ALL
Jonny says: (3:09:43 PM)
God is love, truth, and existence. He is every thought and feeling. He is in every organ in our body and every star at night
Jordan says: (3:10:48 PM)
Nice. I wish you could have listened more to Richard Syrett's show
Jordan says: (3:12:04 PM)
He had some of the coolest guests come in and talk about soul sharing, or the existence of God in DNA
Jonny says: (3:12:45 PM)
Of course man, god is apart of the largest macrocosm and the smallest microcosm
Jordan says: (3:12:55 PM)
Oh definitely
Jonny says: (3:15:33 PM)
He is the all in all. lol I can't stress it enough. But again most organized religions lead you to the road of their preconceived god, not necessarily the "true god" I unno I don't want to sound like I know the true road to god because like I said there are many, they all lead to the same place
Jordan says: (3:17:29 PM)
I think sometimes we put God in a box, where we think we understand Him, and we get in our comfort zone with Him. And then we don't like to hear about how someone else views God, because that takes us out of that zone, that box
Jordan says: (3:18:23 PM)
And a lot of people develop the same idea of God that their pastor has, or that the person in the pew next to them has, and they don't dare to explore it any further
Jonny says: (3:19:04 PM)
Yeah that’s the working of the catholic cognize
Jordan says: (3:19:24 PM)
Yes, or protestants as well
Jonny says: (3:19:33 PM)
I’m not trying to persuade you from your faith. plz don't think that
Jordan says: (3:19:43 PM)
Its why people from Ohio vote republican
Jordan says: (3:19:50 PM)
Oh heck no
Jordan says: (3:20:08 PM)
I like talking to you about this BECAUSE you have an open mind
Jordan says: (3:20:15 PM)
So many people don't
Jordan says: (3:20:43 PM)
And I hope that I have an open mind, even if I do solidly believe in a few things
Jordan says: (3:21:53 PM)
But I can always learn more
Jonny says: (3:23:24 PM)
I’m just of the understanding that when someone asks me about these things and depending on their maturity and ability to think/understand. I have to tell them what I consider as knowledge. And I do love talking about this shit with you. Just know that I'm never going to purposefully take you off your path I’m just giving you want you kind of want to hear
Jonny says: (3:24:35 PM)
But yeah I brought that introduction to heretics’, if you want to get a glimpse of where I’m coming from. I feel that hermetic philosophy
Jonny says: (3:24:57 PM)
Is a great tool to understand how everything works
Jonny says: (3:25:44 PM)
I get my understanding of truth and religion from hermetic philosophy
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